Someone explain these seasons...
...then get back to me on PEDs. All of these players would be accused of PED abuse if these seasons happened in 2008.
Mickey Mantle's 1956 season compared to the others from '53 to '60, then the one year blip in '61.
Davey Johnson's 1973, Burt Campenaris' 1970, Carlton Fisk's 1985.
Was Tony Gwynn using when he hit 17 HR at age 37 & 16 at 38 when he hadn't hit double digit HRs since age 26...musta been, right?
At age 40 George Brett hit 19 HRs, in the same number of ABs each of the previous two season he totaled 17. After the 19HR season he retires? Obviously hiding something, he used something, right?
Player A has HR totals in the teens early in his career, then 44 HRs at age 27, 40 when he's 29 & 30, then stuck in the teens and early 20s for HR totals throughout his 30s with a one year blip of 28 HRs when he's 37. An obvious steroid user, must've used them to get a big contract then stopped when he was paid. You can easily tell just by looking at his stats. Either that of it's Carl Yastrzemski's career.
Dozens if not hundreds of tests have been done on HGH use & athletes in their prime, none have shown even a little bit of evidece of improvement. It doesn't help sprinters, power lifters, gymnasts; it certainly doesn't help baseball players. There has also been no proof of it helping recover from injuries, none. Other than older people, in their 60s and older (Stallone), there are no benefits to HGH. There is also no information on the long term affects of its use, hence the ban.
Baseball is a game of physics, hand-eye coordination and decision making. Big biceps don't matter; if Dave Kingman played his career in the 90s instead of the 70s he would've had Jose Canseco stats (less the SB). Smaller ballparks, weaker pitching, better bats all lead to better offense a whole lot more than any steroid or hormone ever could/would or will.
Take all the steroids you want, if you don't have a smooth swing, can't put the bat head on the ball, can't lay off the slider away, you're not going to be any good. Desperate players have tried to gain an advantage to get to a higher level of play, they've all failed, everyone of them, majors & minors, no improvement in performance, none. One year blips have happened forever, superstar & scrub, they continue to happen now, and will 20 years from now.
What about Caminiti then? What about the guy who was on Outside the Lines who admitted he would never have been in the big leagues without steroids. His fastball had an extra 6 or so MPH on it. There are aberrations in many careers, and not everyone who has one is a user. Not to mention there is a difference between steroids and HGH right? I am not saying every Brady Anderson or Richard Hidalgo used steroids the year they hit 40+ home runs. And it isn't just about home runs, its about recovery, etc. Strength and recovery matter, even in baseball, just not quite as much as they may in other sports (football).
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I know both guys claim that steroids helped but, other than the confidence they may have given each, they're wrong. The recovery thing is a crock, the cry of desperate people trying to justify the lack of proof within statistics.
I don't have time for details now, but Caminiti was the ballpark & lineup; note Steve Finley's added performance after the same trade. Caminiti's home HRs increased where the road HRs stayed the same. '96 his RBI when way up when Gwynn's were down; Gwynn hitting in front of Caminiti had 90 RBI in '95 & 120 in '97, only had 50 in '96. I'm going on memory here, when I find the info I'll get it to you if you want; I'm not going to research it again.
Dan Naulty is "the guy who was on Outside the Lines", his performance was unchanged by his added velocity (I've got this stuff too). Essentially his minor ERA, WHIP & K/BB ratio took a beating late in the season when he moved up a level (shouldn't it have stayed the same), his K/9IP went down. Throughout his Major League career, as he used, gained weight & velocity, his BAA & K/9IP got worse each season, his K/BB ratio also took a beating. His minor league career was normal, his major league career got worse as it went on; please don't tell me that if he didn't use he wouldn't have gotten as far, you cannot prove that.
From the 2/25 issue of Baseball America (Ben Balder): Velocity isn't everything when it comes to the fastball. Movement, such as whether the pitch tails, bores or sinks, is important, and the ability to command the fastball has seperated plenty of successful major leaguers from pitching-prospect flameouts.
Steriods do not help players with the skills it takes to perform in baseball. I'm not saying they should be allowed, I'm saying they don't help.
I'll post the Camaniti & Naulty stuff in a few days.
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So are you saying that the added strength doesn't matter? Then why do players even worry about adding muscle in the offseason?
I understand that velocity isn't everything, but if a guy throws a good fastball and adds 4 or 5 MPH to it, then wouldnt it be even better?
I also believe that Naulty stated in the episode that eventually he switched to HGH and he went downhill and never regained his velocity. He was just never the same. And I know that I don't have prove that Naulty never made it because he used steroids, but he said he never would have if he didn't.
Just answer this: Are you saying that no player can benefit whatsoever from using steroids?
I have already stated my stance. I highly doubt it would turn Melky Cabrera into Willie Mays (as far as production is concerned). But I do believe that it could turn a great Bonds into an even greater Bonds.
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First, just because Naulty said it doesn't make it true. Which Naulty statements do you beleive? NY Daily News when he said his fastball went from "86-95 in three short years"? ESPM OTL when he said 15mph & 60lbs? NJ Star Ledger when he said 40lbs? The Mitchell Report states that he stopped using steriods by the time he pitched for the Yankees in '99, and lost muscle mass & arm strength; in the NY Daily News piece he wrote himself he states he used "steriods by day" while with the Yankees.
Low A ball & elite college baseball are the same level; in '92 his last year in college his K/9IP was 7.0 (123IP), in '93 after "20 lbs of muscle & 5mph" it was 7.44 at Low A (116IP). Then moved up to high A (30IP) and it was 6.0, his ERA went from 3.26 to 5.70, his WHIP from 1.28 to 1.46. In '94 8.5 K/9IP at High A (88IP), then 5.6 at AA (47), his ERA from 2.95 to 5.89, his WHIP from 1.25 to 1.49. Where's this recovery and added stamina from these steroids? The '95 season, 90IP, his K/9IP was 7.6, WHIP 1.54. His Major League K/9IP and BAA from '96 to '99 (BAA wasn't available for his minor league stats): .207/8.8, .254/6.9, .269/5.6, .225/4.6; all stats are from the first half of the season, insignificant innings after the all-star break each year. The man didn't improve at all from one season to the next. Most of the time got worse, especially late in the season.
Because I said I would, Ken Camaniti: 1993 season hit 13HR and had 75 RBI, 33 more ABs at home - 5/45 home, 8/30 road. 1994 season 18/75 total, same ABs H/A - 6/40 at home, 12/35 away. 1995 (in SD, Gwynn 90RBI) was 26/94 total, 26 more road ABs - 16/51 at home, 10/43 away. 1996 was "the year" of 40/130, 45 more road ABs but 20/65 both home & away (Gwynn 116G, 50RBI). 1997 was 26/90, 20 more road ABs, 15/46 at home, 11/44 on the road (Gwynn 119RBI).
In more ABs at home in '93, less power, same ABs home & away in '94 less power; more road ABs in '95, more power at home, same power on the road as with the Astros, fewer ABs at home in '96, same power numbers home and awsy - and the 90 RBI guy in front of him the year before didn't produce, more road ABs in '97 more power at home, 50 RBI guy the year before went for 119. It was the ballpark and batting 4th behind Henderson & Gwynn (instead of 6th for the Astros) that produced the power numbers, just like the increase for Finley when he moved into the same ballpark and lineup.
Yes I'm saying baseball players do not benefit from steriods; baseball abilities are skills, skills are not enhanced by steriods. Steroids does not quicken bat speed (even for Bonds), improve hand/eye coordination, spot a fastball, help a slider/cureball break or result in any improvement in late season production.
I can't be anymore clear; I'm done with the subject (for now). I have division preview stuff to do...stop by and see me again, but no steroid stuff until at least Memorial Day.
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I left out the adding muscle question. Not many players do add muscle, we'll see how it helps Clay Buchholz this year, he pitched a no-hitter Sept 1st last year, hard to beleive he'll pitch better late because of the extra pounds isn't it?
why hasn't Tim Hudson added weight (natually of course)? David Eckstein? Coco Crisp? Chone Figgins? Derek Jeter is in shape, but no Adonis, couldn't he hit for more power if he bulked up a little? There are plenty of players of slight build that don't add weight and have lengthy careers. If adding weight is significant, why doesn't everyone do it? If it improves performance it would improve it for everyone who added weight.
Smaller ballparks, better bats & poorer pitching.
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But please just tell me how Bonds had an .813 slugging percentage at the age of 39 after this this positive test comes out.
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Because he had 2 more singles, 5 more doubles and 2 more triples in only 17 fewer ABs; his .812 was less than a 10% increase from the season before and only 12pts higher than the season before that.
Aaron hit 40 HRs at 39 in 50 fewer ABs than he had at 38 (34 HRs), his slg pct went from .514 to .643, that would be over 20Z increase at the same age.
Ted Williams' slg pct at 38 was .731, the three previous seasons it was .605, .703 (98 games) and .635. Tell me how he increased his slg pct so much at that age?
Eddie Murray's slg pct at 39 was .516 after slugging over .500 once (age 34) since age 29, how did that happen?
Ruth was successful at 36 & 37, Winfield was steady from age 33-40, even sitting out an entire season he was able to come back and pick up where he left off. Reggie Jackson also put 20% on his slg pct at 39, from ages 37 & 38.
This is not unprecedented, other great players have done the same things as Bonds. Bonds' increase was actually smaller than others.
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